A quick thought experiment to cause absolutely no controversy whatsoever.
What happens if covid restrictions end up being proven to prevent the 1000-4000 flu deaths that happen in Australia every year?
Do we relax restrictions and accept that people will die, many more than covid has killed here. Or do we lock down forever? Why is a flu death different to a covid death?
If you think we should not lockdown forever but should until the vaccines are here why is a flu death more acceptable to you than a covid one?
this (namely lockdowns+masks+hand washing+intolerance of sniffles in public prompted by COVID panic resulting in noticeably lower overall death rate from all other diseases) is something that I speculated about in late ‘19 or early ‘20. This would obv. Take some years to observe.
My angle was a bit different, but overall thrust the same.
Personal take is that everything is attended by risks. So everything involves a trade off of some kind between safety and convenience* (*or cost or whatever).
The challenge is finding a path that allows individuals to take individual risks, without impinging on others’ agency too much (or externalising the costs). This is why you’re not allowed to drive at 150km past a school. But can do so on private land.
In relation to communicable diseases, if people are able to protect themselves reasonably well* reasonably easily* (by hiding away, or by taking experimental shots, say) broader restrictions are hard to justify.
Sorry if you already covered this.
Given the mess on the weekend links comments I went looking for flu stats post covid to provide like for like comparison and the best I could find indicated no flu deaths during covid at all, compared with 1000+ every year pre covid.
This seems to be being kept very quiet, probably because it involves provoking uncomfortable comparisons like the above.
The entire problem of course is that nobody will ever agree on what is a reasonable response even IF they agree on the facts.
I expect a likely response of flu deaths ok, covid deaths bad because unknown and new, given how illogical people are in general.
and here: https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/cda-surveil-ozflu-flucurr.htm#current
“It is important to note that due to the COVID-19 epidemic in Australia, data reported from the various influenza surveillance systems may not represent an accurate reflection of influenza activity. Results should be interpreted with caution, especially where comparisons are made to previous influenza seasons.”
“In the year to date, of the 388 notifications of laboratory-confirmed influenza, no influenza-associated deaths have been notified to the NNDSS.”
One possible reason is because there’s been very little travel which means less introduction of influenza into community. In addition to nursing homes being locked down which protects the most vulnerable from the flu. Also it would be pretty hard to get tested atm because most GP’s won’t let people in the door for flu like symptoms and instead will tell them to go get covid tested. Plus masks and social distancing and all the rest of precautions people have been taking. That all said I would expect to see some deaths captured but not zero.
Last year, flu vaccinations spiked and new batches had to be ordered in. You are right, lockdowns, less travel and better hand sanitation all helped.
I actually looked into this over the weekend as I was dealing with the neurotic outbursts of another over-empathetic relative – my mother.
I took the CDC mortality rates from the US’s 2013 Flu season and compared them to the mortality rates of COVID in the UK up to Jan 2021, which was prior to the vaccine being significantly administered within the community.
Comparing the comparative mortality rates COVID and the Flu are virtually identical up 50, after which they rise substantially.
Unfortunately I had to compare the US influenza rate against approximate age brackets from the UK Govt.
The US’s CDC had tables for both Influenza and COVID, using the same demographic break up and statistics based around Symtomatic Infections, Medical Visits and Hospital visits, all of which showed COVID to be higher than the Influenza – but for some reason when it came to sharing the important ‘death burden’ by COVID the CDC chose to hide the information from their table unlike influenza.
By approximating the US bands using the UK data so that they roughly lined up the death rates look identical to the age of 50, after which Covid starts to disproportionately run away from the flu.
and what about obesity and obesity related deaths? heart disesae, cancer, etc – why aren’t we calling a national crisis over that?
people will say “its not contagious like covid is” but in a sense it kind of is, because the prevalence of obesity determines its normalcy, and that normalcy lets other people choose to be fat with less social consequence.
imagine if the ABC had an obesity death counter every day, and state premiers were giving daily press conferences about the number of ppl who die as a result of fat related issues every 10 am.
Shaming is not allowed anymore because ‘hurt feelings’.
But I think shaming used to be a very useful way to let people know what was considered undesirable conduct in society.
Not talking about fat shaming only obviously.
There is no “used to” about it.
Just what people get shamed about has changed.
What do you think “Cancel culture” is.
Unfortunately ‘cancel culture’ is shaming manufactured by a hostile elite and detrimental to our society.
As opposed to shaming that was formed over centuries by our own cultural values.
The real rabbit hole is all the additional deaths cause by the restrictions themselves. Of course there is no drive through test for that, so they mustn’t exist. If there was no covid test I’d imagine this whole thing would have played out very differently.
You know I haven’t heard or seen a single thing on climate change/global warming for the past 18 months. All the MSM is nowadays is covid news. It’s like nothing else ever happens in the world anymore.
it seems to suit a lot of people:
cui bono? who have I missed?
You could save far more years of quality life by just banning the addition of sugar to processed food than any of the vaccines for covid will ever save. However, there is no money to be made from that, unlike vaccines where billions of tax payer money has already been pocketed by the pharma industry.
John Ionnidis is saying exactly this (wrt cigarettes):
See the latest dictator Dan interview
he has given up trying to tell people that they should get vaccinated so they don’t spread it to oldies (a lie)
he is now telling them that if they don’t get vaccinated they might take up a hospital bed that could otherwise be used for a stroke or heart attack
ignoring of course all the fat cunts drinking and smoking who take up nearly all our hospital beds
and have done so since federation
notice not even a hint of pushback from the “journalists” interviewing him
dan just gets to lecture us like a school master
Not to mention the irony and hypocrisy of Dan being a fat little porker himself
who just got out of ICU because he was pissed and fell over
That bit about fatty Danny boy having taken up a hospital bed (whether for falling over drunk or after being bashed for being a sleazy cunt) is awesome.
There are flu vaccines. The only thing that I can see changing is vaccination passports. i.e. you do not enter Australia unless you have had a covid vaccine, possibly even flu vaccine but I doubt it.
I think people are missing the simple point that many voters, especially the elderly, will not forgive the government if they are not given the opportunity to be vaccinated before exposure to the virus. There is also no counterargument to that because I doubt the libertarians demanding their civil liberties are going to be voting for Labor or Greens in protest.
What happens if/when the covid vaccines are proven as effective as flu vaccines?
In the best case the flu vaccine makes you half as likely as unvaccinated to get the flu. Hardly an increase worth the restrictions in my opinion.
These are hypotheticals. You don’t know whether the virus will evolve to become more or less virulent. Whether the mRNA vaccine will be less effective. There are also other solutions in play:
Right here and now. The Pfizer vaccine estimated to reduce deaths by around 97%. If LNP open up the borders before everyone had a chance to vaccinate they will lose the next few elections. If LNP wait until everyone vaccinated they will win the next few elections. LNP could not care less about the opinions of libertarians who will never vote for Labor or Greens.
That straight out doesn’t exist and never will. UV that doesn’t kill viruses still causes cancer, never mind the higher energy stuff that is used for sterilisation of equipment.
NONE of those other solutions are in really in play, even the vaccines are highly optimistic. Why have none of these technologies ever been approved for any other disease pre covid?
Only 2 possible reasons, they don’t work better than placebo, or they are dangerous. There is simply no way at all someone thought up completely new tech that had never been thought of and got it into use in 18 months. All this tech has been rejected previously.
And given the pharma companies that know the most about them demanded that they be absolved from ALL LEGAL LIABILITY FROM THEIR USE before providing them for use, I lean heavily towards dangerous.
Before Covid it was perceived that a vaccine for the Common Cold coronavirus did not exist because it was impossible, and hence there would never be a vaccine for Covid. Time has proven that to be a fallacy. There was never a business case to produce a vaccine for the common cold. People do not avoid spending their money for fear for catching a cold. With Covid even if Coming got his way and old people locked themselves up we end up in a massive global recession.
Your opinion of no solution ignores the financial motivations of EZFKA. I have seen one of the Aus universities receive funding to take those mRNA tablets into trial, even if the lighting cannot work on skin they can still improve air-conditioning systems to kill virus with the lighting or better HEPA filtering, it is just a matter of time before cheaper and quicker testing kits are available. They will find a way.
They found a way to cure morning sickness as well.
All those safety protocols currently being ignored to “find a way” were created in response to massive outrage at a horrible situation. Unfortunately that is slipping from living memory and we seem doomed to repeat it…
This is idiotic
the problem was fabricated, and (or so?) that the solution could be manufactured
the only reason anybody has heard of Covid was because the media decided to push the story
remember the people dropping dead in the middle or the street in wuhan ?
the great funeral pyres of millions of dead Chinese detected as spikes in carbon around the city ?
it was all lies of course
if you hadn’t been told about this apocalyptic pandemic , nobody would have known any different
just like the guy below asking why he doesn’t know anyone who has died of flu
the increase over background mortality was a blip : a few percentage points even in the worst hit countries
and almost entirely in people at the ends of their lives who nobody would be surprised if they died
the hysteria was a media beatup, not because people were literally dropping dead everywhere
of course, the genie is out of the bottle now, true
but if the sheep were dumb enough to swallow the first tale, why couldn’t they swallow another to reverse it
With Covid even if Coming got his way and old people locked themselves up we end up in a massive global recession.
so a Covid pandemic where we actually locked everybody down wasn’t enough to cause a global recession
but somehow if we didn’t lock them down , there WOULD be a global recession ?
DLS-level logic there
Yeah yeah. GDP was never going to drop at all if we just let people die. Everyone was going to live their normal lives happily catching and passing on the the virus whilst spending their money like good little consumers.
I don’t know what to tell you mate, you are trying to deny the reality of what actually happened
People DID die
people DID panic and lock themselves away
except on top of that we had arbitrary and futile rules to further curtail people’s choices
and we didn’t have a recession
again, what do you think would have been different ?
Deny reality. Too funny.
I still remember your Alan Jones quote of there is only 5 deaths. It is just the flu.
More people typically die of flu in a year than have died from covid, and mostly the same sorts of people. So it’s not a lot more than the flu.
And here is the other Baghdad Bob. 4 million dead from Covid despite all the lockdowns preventing many more, and we are led to believe more people die from the flu.
People only ever die from old age….babies who die from preventable viral infections actually die from old age. Rightio
“Deaths that lockdowns prevented”
what proof do you have for this ?
your example of Peru locked down harder than any other country in South America , almost harder than any other in the world, and has by far the worst results in the world
UK, Spain, Italy, France all locked down hard and did worse than Sweden
florida vs California
north vs South Dakota
there are countless examples contrary to your claim
nobody has claimed that people won’t die from Covid
we have said from the beginning that it wasn’t as bad as we were told (proven true)
and that the elimination strategy would fail (proven true)
and that any costs (social, financial, political) associated with lockdown would exceed any benefit (demonstrably true)
More propaganda. Peru locked down hard last year and then open up. GFY with your propaganda and obfuscation.
Yeah my obfuscation and propaganda
you can’t even stick to the topic or respond when any of your new diversions are queried
let’s be honest – you’re an ill-informed sophist
Why are you avoiding the question ?
what Alan jones quote are you talking about ?
It is one of the most idiotic questions that has ever been asked. A few people have died so no difference if tens of thousands more die right? what is a couple zeros between psychopaths?
You should go back to you propaganda efforts and cherry pick some stats to show us that despite 0.6% of Peru’s entire population being wiped out by the newer strain, that the newer strain is harmless and really just 0.00000000001% deadly.
You’ve completely avoided my question again
both my questions in fact (Alan jones?)
your contention was that not locking down will cause a global depression
please address it
Peru is an interesting diversion that you have created in order to avoid defending your original position
it locked down more strictly than almost any other country in the world, and yet had by far the worst outcome
A gedanken experiment? Controversy? What more could a man ask for?
Here’s an observation that I’d like to put out there. I’m nearing 60,and I have personally known people who have died of all sorts of things including cancer, car crashes, drug overdoses, suicide, and heart attacks. All the common killers. I’ve heard of people who have died of numerous other causes such as strokes, Alzheimers, suicide, one murder etc. I know of numerous people who have suffered and survived diabetes, Parkinsons, cancer, car crashes and Christ knows what.
And yet….I have never in my life personally known or known of a single person whose death was attributed to influenza. Not one. In fact, I have never known a single person who has ever told me that they have influenza or have previously had it. Every swinging dick with a runny nose used to claim they had “the flu”, but actual medically diagnosed influenza? Not one in my entire life.
Now, far be it from me to suggest that someone might be nurgling the figures to make bank of selling influenza treatment. But still, I think that’s odd. I’m not a tinfoil hat guy, but that’s very odd indeed, given that it’s supposed to kill thousands of people every year.
There’s about 1200 people killed in car crashes each year, and I can name 4 people I have known personally including 3 family members who have been killed in car crashes, and I have been severely injured in a car crash myself. But influenza has not touched my life in any way, not even with 2 3 steps of indirection.
So what’s the vibe? Do other EZFKA units know swarms of influenza victims, to make up for my lack of contact with the disease? Where are all these influenza sufferers and fatalities to be found? Surely every family has an influenza story or three?
I only personally know people who have died from old age.
Clearly any other cause is a fantasy made up to scare people?
So you don’t know anybody who has died of influenza either?
I do – went away for a party with some mates in my 20s, met a friend of a friend. About 2mths later I heard he died from the flu. He was in his 20s and no known health conditions, lived by himself. That was probably a bit over 20yrs ago.
I think that’s an important point. I heard an ED doctor make the same point over a year ago: He could not recall any case over the course of his career of people presenting at ED with influenza and then dying. None of his colleagues could recall more than one or two cases. But it can certainly happen with COVID. The point is that the influenza death figures don’t come from counting actual deaths – they are the output of a statistical formula that nobody seems to understand except the CDC boffins. So yeah, it seems quite likely that by saying that thousands of people are dying from influenza in a typical year, that they created a tendency to underestimate COVID.
I know influenza deaths in the US are the result of CDC numberwang versus actually counting dead bodies, and we all trust the CDC right? But is that also the case in Australia?
Whatever the case, your anecdata about the doctor and his colleagues is very interesting and aligns with my own observations. I know, sample size of 2 and all that, but still, I’m going to take some convincing that the Aussie influenza numbers aren’t wildly inflated by the people who make a lot of money selling vaccines.
You are approaching 60; is the ‘death from flu’ the same with covid – ie most people who die from it are over 60? that might explain the sampling.
although from what I understand flu is generally more risky to younger cohorts. ie flu poses a risk to kids (at least compared with covid).
the nsw health stats* were approx 10/100,000 for all population, and far more variable for the over 65 ranging up to 140/100,000 from memory from maybe 50ish?
Clearly flu is far deadlier to the oldies, just like covid. Not really a huge surprise there.
*flu+ other similar resp infections, so probably a valid use even though not just flu.
It’s mainly elderly from nursing homes who are not for resuscitation or artificial ventilation
they are generally drowsy and noncommunicative from hypoxia
they die peacefully in their beds and the relatives are told it was old age
I have one influenza death…. one…I’m in my 60’s.
somewhat atypically the affliction eroded the blokes heart valves.
so I was told
I’m guessing all of us here have 0 covid deaths?
Not sure what any of this anecdata proves though.
0 covid deaths and a gargantuan two active covid cases in total
The problem is the loony left honestly believes they can woke away death. Death is offensive and must be defeated at all costs.
So if we all take experimental vaccines and hide in our houses forever nobody will get flu/COVID/etc and live forever.
If we all pay really high carbon taxes then we will stop the climate changing and nobody will ever again die from heatwaves, coldsnaps, floods etc and live forever.
The reality is over one million people in the world die every single week and there’s not much we can or should do about it. We’re mortal beings, get over it and let us live our fleeting lives in peace.
Given Australia’s zero risk Covid policy, lockdowns will keep occurring. The modelling will likely show we need a 80-90%+ rate of vaccinations to achieve herd immunity and hence state premiers will keep locking borders and enforcing lockdowns. My biggest concern is that QR checkins will be around much longer than they should with the zero risk justification. QLD and WA have shown that this data is not just used for contact tracing. Victoria has stated police need a warrant to access this data. I’ll also add that Victoria was going to pass a law allowing police to arrest anyone they think would break any lockdown or curfew rules. I know I am a bit off topic, but at stage we have to accept the science that Covid is with us for good, we are going to have to accept that at a certain stage we will have herd immunity through vaccination and that the measures imposed to curtail the spread will have to be removed.
“and that the measures imposed to curtail the spread will have to be removed.”
LOL yeah right. The governments won’t give up their power over citizens now. Just look at Melbourne today where they can just rock up and lockdown everyone in the own apartments for 14 days. Nothing people can do but be held prisoner in their own showbox for 14 days. All at the whim of some big wig covid official who was their getting their mug on tv.
I still can’t believe how much people have just accepted this shit and how much has been given up when thinking back 18m ago pre-covid.
Victoria is so scared of getting a case that draconian measures are being applied. My concern is that these measures will keep being applied well into next year.
My expectation is that they will be applied into next year.
My concern is they continue to be applied in Australia for another 5 or 10 or 15 years, or until they finally fail and covid gets loose 20+ years from now.
No they won’t. There is an immigration ponzi scheme to run. It’ll be back to normal mid-late next year most likely. You will get most of your rights back whenever vaccination rates are deemed high enough to open the gates.
I would say post election for the immigration ponzi no matter who wins. Australia prioritised the most at risk to be vaccinated first so they can easily justify opening the immigration gates earlier.
The gates can be opened by the feds WHILE the state enact continued or even harsher restrictions to protect us from OS cases.
That’s what will happen. Also, Scomo’s Damascus moment about quarantine hubs, they won’t be used for returned travellers since most will be vaccinated, they will be used for international students.
Tell me how this is possible? We all know the point of bringing people in is to boost GDP via consumption, you can’t do that whilst everyone is in lockdowns.
Immigrants don’t get special movement rights whilst the rest of us are locked down. It just isn’t possible.
Of course it isn’t possible, but the federal gov want’s the gdp boost, the states want less hospital costs, do a better job than the other states etc.
Possibly even reduce infrastructure costs due to less population growth due to less immigrants in their particular state due to tougher restrictions on OS arrivals.
The feds control the border, ALL THE LOCKDOWN RESTRICTIONS ARE STATE RESTRICTIONS.
They can easily go against each other.
The entire history of covid has been the feds and states disagreeing with each other all over the place. The states have literally taken on the federal quarantine responsibilities because the feds refused to. Continuing lockdowns despite having the border open really isn’t a stretch at all.
Wasn’t that argument trotted out last year about the student intake for this year?
Guess what, the border didn’t open.
Cranking tighter restrictions is not the prelude to lifting restrictions, and the restrictions aren’t federal so the fed elections means virtually nothing regarding them.
In fact the states are screwed over by the ponzi since they bear all the costs and few of the gains so may prefer to give the feds a fuck you and lock down longer.
States are just as addicted to the population ponzi as the feds. Most states have drawn up plans to bring back students.
For Victoria, the member for Werribee who lives in Williamstown said “diversity is our strength and we won’t debate immigration”. So much for being screwed over.
True, but none of them are prepping the population for reduced restrictions. Bringing students in to then continue lockdowns will be self defeating and lead to political unrest and a likely lost next election.
Going full tilt for the next month or 2 on lockdowns and border closures for a few hundred cases is hardly likely to make selling tens of thousands of covid cases early next year thanks to no more restrictions and an open border an easy sell.
Given how hard the eradication of cases is being pushed i figure it will have to be a gradual increase in allowable cases over a year or 2 to get the population to accept those sorts of case numbers, if not more.
The problem with scaremongering the population about something is that they remain scared of it even when you don’t want them to anymore.
SA will be starting soon and quarantining the students at Parafield airport. What do you think Victoria will do with its quarantine centre other than more construction jobs? Agree, it is a trickle, but the intent still remains.
You either have herd immunity or you have spread. You don’t have both.
we have herd immunity for measles, we don’t for the flu.
I’d be willing to bet covid is more flu than measles like.
The three injections that constitute a full course of measles vaccination schedule are 99.99% effective according to research
one injection? Only 90% effective
Why do you think they choose to go for three ?
Because you can’t eliminate measles virus from the population with a 90% effective vaccination
now remind us: what is the effectiveness of Covid vaccination (2x jabs) at PREVENTING SEVERE ILLNESS?
90% , if you believe their number but whatever let’s assume that’s correct
next, what is the effectiveness of Covid vaccination at PREVENTING INFECTION?
not even close to 90%
maybe not even 50%
Now you can see how we will never have herd immunity
not even close
That’s why you never hear these CHOs even suggest it
My concern is the 80%+ number also, that is going to be difficult to achieve and will mean lockdowns for H1 next year, maybe even H2 depending on how slow the uptake is. Just get to 50% and be done with it.
I don’t know of any countries at that point yet. The US is not meeting its targets now, something DLS is silent about. Mainly small countries being the most vaccinated.
I just want a target for interstate travel. You can’t travel interstate without being interrupted by a new ruling.
This is my major concern for sure. 80% for Australia is likely June next year at the earliest. If they want 90% and our vaccine rollout is slow it might not be until end of Q3 next year, maybe even Q4… That’s a lot of lockdowns that are getting harder and harder to justify all in the name of zero risk.
why not 20%, or 5%, or 0%.
None of them are enough to stop the spread.
Or is it more about self interest in not until I’ve had mine?
Jeez you love glossing over the obvious don’t you. It’s about vaccinating enough of the most at risk. 5% obviously isn’t enough.
80% probably isn’t enough, why did you arbitrarily pick 50%?
My personal view only is a middle of the road near enough is good enough approach, thus 50%. You blokes would have everything re open now, nervous Nellie’s want 90%.
My post went completely over your head
the virus will never be eliminated
immunisation should therefore be a personal choice
I never said it would be eliminated?
And immunisation is currently, and will always likely be a personal choice, just with some incentives and sticks along the way to guide everyone..
Then why is the percentage of vaccinated people of any consequence ?
What is the point you are trying to make, if any ?
So why can’t the decision to go out in the community and potentially get infected be a personal choice as well?
You nervous nelly types can personally lock yourselves down while others are free to do what they wish.
Only COVID deaths are unacceptable.
Flu deaths, letting people drink, smoke, eat themselves to an early grave, allowing people to die because they don’t have adequate health insurance are all acceptable ways to die.
300k extra deaths in the US last year despite going open slather for most of the country.
600k deaths from heart disease, plus all the deaths from other lifestyle diseases on top of it.
Not to mention that most of the people under 70 dying from COVID are obese and in poor health.
No-one is saying hey why are we letting these fast food companies, soft drink companies market products to children? We could be saving hundreds of thousands of people from dying from heart disease every year.
How many alcohol related deaths in this country every year from direct health problems, violence? How many injuries caused by alcohol?
But COVID. Some old people at the end of their life and some fat slobs that have never cared about their health once in their life die and I have to turn my life upside down to help them.
You’re missing the point that in all of your examples, the result is primarily the choice of the individual. Covid can be given to you whether you want it or not. Conversely you can give it to others. Straightforward dude.
Same with flu.
So what’s the answer to the actual question I proposed?
Are the lockdowns and restrictions worth continuing forever to prevent flu, or are you just far less scared of flu so don’t actually care about that?
There’s a shot for the flu. The flu isn’t as bad as covid. Think about it.
I’m not as scared of the flu and really don’t give a shit about those people dying.
THINK ABOUT IT.
Thing is, I’m not scared of covid either, one or the other may kill me but i’m happy to live with that risk, just like getting in a car or plane.
Cool so that’s your personal decision. But your decision directly impacts others so isn’t that a wee bit selfish?
Your decision RE the flu also effects people, so unless you want lockdowns forever you are also selfish in exactly the same way to a slightly lesser degree.
Your decision to prevent me from living my life is effecting me as well, but that doesn’t matter obviously.
The whole thing is compromises one way or the other.
The factor you haven’t considered is that Covid took out the sick before flu could get to them
additionally, it’s mainly the frailest and oldest who die from respiratory viral infections
by clearing them all out, you reduce the number vulnerable to die the following winter
we have seen this in influenza pandemics when the years following have lower than average deaths
it is equivalent to back burning and load reduction
Australia, on the other hand, has a very large amount of dry kindling
eventually, something will have to set a match to it
from CBS ’60 Minutes’ programme a 15 minute clip about the swine flue in 1976.
CDC was very keen on mass vaccination then also, after just 13 hospitalisations and one death.
It didn’t end well for some.
Some parallels to today:
Ok I’ll bite. Here’s a new blog post – freedom at all costs selfish righty wants to do as they please, does not care about consequences to others no matter how serious.
Newsflash – for any society to function there are rules that need to be followed, especially in times of crisis.
Several frequent commentators on EZFKA would do well to think about that before wheeling out the same old tired arguments about how their temporary – and it will be temporary – loss of personal liberties are more important than anything else.
Granted that in a crisis, there will be a temporary loss of personal liberties. However, I have three issues with how these ‘temporary’ loss of freedoms have been applied here.
One other thing I will add is that these temporary measures meant we left citizens stranded overseas for months on end. Our citizens have a fundamental right of being able to return home and it has been all but denied. Our leaders have been shameless in saying lock a few out to prevent lockdown. Our leaders think low Covid numbers mean good leadership even if it means denying some fundamental rights.
The sheeple overall agree. The question is how long until they start getting upset about it?
18 months with almost no objection, I figure 3-5 years worth will just be accepted, and at that point why bother stopping at all?
People laugh at my 15 years of lockdown but it is definitely a >0% possibility.
I agree. Probably the only thing that will change people’s minds are seeing Chinese tourists everywhere in Kuta and they can’t leave Australia. Might be different in Victoria when Andrews locks down Victoria for 30 cases in 2025 for the Theta variant, people will still praise him. I have said it before we want things risk free in Australia. Culturally we have moved this way. Even Singapore which usually goes for risk free has worked out that it needs to take risk to revive its economy of immigration, tourism and money laundering.
But only the consequences and freedoms you choose, right?
How long do restrictions need to continue before you will also think they have gone to far?
I’d be willing to bet a spike in covid cases next winter puts us in a lockdown again in one of the states, multiple states and outbreaks if the borders open up.