Just this.

I tend to blather on a lot with my explanations.

Here is an explanation of Tether, Yield Farming, Liquidity and the rest of Crypto all in one thread.

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Peachy

It’s a cute narrative that Trolly wheels out, but it’s just a story suspended in a vacuum.

really, he’s just described any generic bubble where people buy because prices go up. That is there is an upward sloping demand curve that exists for a certain time.

He’s done nothing to demonstrate that BTC is in a bubble. Indeed, he could’ve told the same parable about BCH or LTC or x shares or houses in location y.

Peachy

Same sort of thing happens in the real world too. Money gets printed and it gets used to buy things, making those things more valuable.

just the people doing the printing and benefitting are different (not developers).

but similar in the fact that the ones doing the printing are the ones benefitting (bankers). In a sense that’s pretty predictable – why would you print if it didn’t benefit you one jot?

Peachy

Nothing wrong with private, I thought. Didn’t EZFKA just spend decayeds (sic) privatising the piss freaking everything… because private sector is more efficient? Goose and gander 😋

Also, what may be illegal in one place but not illegal in another place, so happy days! 🤗.

Peachy

Except for tax/fines, all debts are private.

So no reason why some private cryptocoin can’t be used as the basis of private trade in the private economy. Remember, countries don’t trade with countries – people trade with people.

It is at least technically possible that over the next decade we gradually drift to a world where more and more transactions are settled with one or more private coins. The trick is reaching critical mass… eg if I can buy my necessities in crypto, I might be happy earning in crypto.

That’s the tricky bit, I think – redenominating labour into crypto.

ThePensum

that’s a trick… reaching critical mass. do you really think this will happen?

Peachy

I think that, having not been strangled in the cradle by governments, it is now at least a possibility.

afterall, if there is a money/payment system that does everything better than old style fiat and has the benefit of being outside the manipulation by govt and bankers, there’d seem to be a strong natural demand for it.

now, that money/payment system doesn’t necessarily have to be BTC, it could be something else. Maybe something completely separate or something built on top of BTC, who knows?! (Just like you don’t pay for a pack of gum with a $100 note, you’d be unlikely to pay for your lunch with BTC, at current valuations.)

governemnts could conceivably still bury it, but with mkt cap now in the trillions, it would take a very significant and coordinated effort – might be in the “too hard” basket.

Last edited 2 months ago by Peachy
ThePensum

personally I think they will still bury it, and make their own equivalent or whatever. just a hunch though. sovereigns are very jealous of their power, and minting their own coin is one of those privileges.

bjw678

They already have their own equivalent, unless you mean they make something of fixed total supply and floating value against fiat, which takes their control away anyway.

BankCoin™ has been in use at atm/eftpos for decades…

Peachy

Good perspective.

Last edited 2 months ago by Peachy
Coming

What you haven’t been able to understand is that this doesn’t create a demand for bitcoins

each Bitcoin can be used over and over again – they aren’t destroyed by being transacted

they’re not a commodity that gets consumed

more trade in Bitcoin, doesn’t increase the value of bitcoins

just like more trade in dollars doesn’t increase the value of dollars

additionally each Bitcoin or whatever coin is effectively infinitely divisible in terms of trade value – as the value of the coin increases the number required to represent the same “value” of trades is reduced

this is just so fucking stupid I feel like I’m in a nightmare

Peachy

I feel you are conflating a whole bunch of different concepts.

this doesn’t create a demand for bitcoins each Bitcoin can be used over and over again – they aren’t destroyed by being transacted

this is also true for dollars – they can be used over and over again. And yet there is demand for dollars. So to me it seems that the questions of

  • whether something (dollar/bitcoin/other) is reusable
  • whether there is demand for something (dollar/Bitcoin/other)

are quite separate things.

each Bitcoin or whatever coin is effectively infinitely divisible in terms of trade value – as the value of the coin increases the number required to represent the same “value” of trades is reduced

This is also true for dollars (divisible into 100 cents) or millions of dollars (divisible into 100,000,000 cents). Contractually, even cents are divisible – we can have a contract where I owe you 0.1cents.

And yet, we find things trading at particular prices. Nobody would seriously suggest that we could (ie are likely to) redenominate things into cents. People aren’t going to say “I wanted two million dollars for my house but fuck it. I can just take two million cents – it’s just an arbitrary unit anyway. On my way to the beach, I’ll get the grocer to accept 2c for an ice cream.

now, there may not be a firm logical reason why it is impossible to redenominate from dollars into cents (or fractions of cents), but it seems that there are very compelling practical reasons (to the point that the suggestion seems patently absurd).

Bitcoin seems to be the same. In theory, everything that gets traded for 1BTC could be traded equally well for 0.01BTC. But in practice this is not how it plays out.

Coming

for the first of your questions now ask why is there a permanent demand for dollars ?

because the judiciary-police complex enforces the taxation denominated in dollars

(and also because currently the American military complex enforces the trade in oil in USD for the moment but that’s a separate issue)

Taxation destroys USD
even if in aggregate more is being created, those paying taxation need to get their hands on it

now for the second part of your questions why is $1 million the price of a house and not 1 million cents ?

again I’ll ask you why are prices of drugs still set in fiat ? Even if paid in crypto
it’s certainly not the govt mandating the trade be conducted in fiat
but the price of a bag is set in dollars, not in Bitcoin

even the price of a Bitcoin is set in dollars

because the government and by their indulgence the central bank, determines the value of a dollar
(And ultimately power comes from violence or the threat of it)

the government spends in fiat before it taxes

and the imperative to pay taxation gives fiat its value

and it’s monopoly on violence give governments the ability to tax

Last edited 2 months ago by Coming
Peachy

for the first of your questions now ask why is there a permanent demand for dollars ?

because the judiciary-police complex enforces the taxation denominated in dollars

nah, you’re going off the rails. You said it’s relevant that bitcoins don’t get destroyed/used up in transactions. I said that is exactly the same as dollars, so it’s not a relevant consideration.

Tax is a separate consideration. Even if I buy into the tax argument – that can only explain perhaps 10%-40% demand for fiat. That is – only so much as I need to pay the taxes on my profits (profit margins and tax rates vary, hence the 10%-40% range).

Concievably I could sell products/services for crypto, then immediately trade the tax portion for fiat. Eg – I clean your house for 2 Monero (~$1k). I know that my tax rate is 35% (10% GST, 25% income tax) so I immediately trade 0.7 Monero for EZFKA dollarydoos. Sorted.

so I don’t think that you can point to taxes, really. I think that the current dominance of fiat over crypto (or other payment methods) is that input costs are denominated in fiat….

So- before I can clean your house, I need to buy cleaning materials and the fuel for my van, Keto meals for myself and electrickery for my house. I need EZFKA dollarydoos to pay for those. But this is just inertia/convention. No reason why in a few years time I might not be able to fund all my input costs in crypto directly.

Miguel de Sousa

He doesn’t look a thing like genius!
More like a troglodyte, a dumb
Accountant cunt

Miguel de Sousa

Screwie the cuck

Miguel de Sousa

👍

Chinese Astroturfer

What did you do to get thrown in the rubber room?

Miguel de Sousa

Tried to go to sleep

Chinese Astroturfer

https://twitter.com/migtronix/status/1388353659101007872/photo/1

You’d have bigger carpet burns on your knees wouldn’t ya?

DictatorDavid

Attacked a Karen in the street. Seems to be a common theme for Mig, verbally abusing women and people weaker than him in public.

Chinese Astroturfer

What a mess. No wonder no woman will ever want him (I think he’s a dung puncher though)

Winning@Failing

I think you’re a faggot

Miguel de Sousa

I ain’t want no bitch

Miguel de Sousa

You be a tiny dickweed
Punk snitch with no talent
So crawl back to where the fuck ever motherfucker

Miguel de Sousa

I’ll do you cunt. Try me

DictatorDavid

You won’t do shit manlet. But I’d love you to take me up on the legitimate offer I made. The one you conveniently ignored.

DictatorDavid

To be fair I’ll even let you set some time to train, get fit/learn to box. 6 months enough?

Last edited 2 months ago by DictatorDavid
Miguel de Sousa

Why? I’ll go for your joints I don’t give a fuck how big you are Dave

Miguel de Sousa

As in Dave Taxpayer Party. Dipshit

Miguel de Sousa

Done. See Screwie bathroom

Plug Meister

Where all the hedge funds what? Hedge? Why didn’t he finish the sentence?

Peachy

You have to click on it to see the continuation….

D896C5A0-79EA-481E-B1F4-18B8264FB22C.jpeg
Plug Meister

Actually now I’ve read the lot, are you sure they are not talking about the Australian Housing market? Houses in deserts and all that….

Peachy

Like I say – it’s a story in a vacuum. Not really tied to any particular set of facts.

could be housing or some other financial asset

Plug Meister

Agree, I think it is worth putting some cash into crypto as part of a balanced portfolio and have been doing that since mid last year. There are a bunch of bubbles out there and working out which ones pop first is the current challenge.

Peachy

Yes.

These days you have to know how to ride the waves/bubbles and hop off the fading ones onto fresh ones that have upward momentum.

bjw678
Peachy

Hmmm what’s a good place to move to before cashing out of crypto.?

is it true what they say about Bahamas and Bermuda?

Plug Meister

LOL, thanks, fancy having to click on a long weekend 😉

Plug Meister

Ew and I ended up on Twitter…

Coming

Probably the most retarded movement in modern history

a shared excel spreadsheet that can be copy pasted infinitely is the hottest investment of the century

we are truly living in clown world now: crypto, anti-racism, transgender movements, Covid hysteria

hopefully we are coming close to catastrophic societal failure so we can start again

Miguel de Sousa

As opposed to a shared spreadsheet that can be shared endlessly? 🤷‍♂️

Coming

no , as opposed to actual productive activities

Peachy

Most people don’t do productive activities anyway.

and those that do are generally the worst paid.

at least this is a non-productive activity that is easily accessible to everyone and, maybe, the playing field is least tilted

Coming

This is satire I’m going to assume

Peachy

No

perhaps slight exaggeration for effect, but not satire.

Last edited 2 months ago by Peachy
Ramjet

I don’t know if it’s a slight exaggeration. Go into any organisation and you will find plenty of examples.

Peachy

😉

Miguel de Sousa

Bwaaahaaahaahaa

Learn to code

Plug Meister

If you are comparing cryptos to spreadsheets, then you already way behind the curve. I agree, that many blockchain projects will wither away, but many projects will prosper and grow. Those who do their research and take some risk will be rewarded. Ignore this asset class at your own peril.

The90kwbeast

Disclaimer – crypto noob.

I think the concept of blockchain is fantastic, and makes entire sense. The crypto coins that sit on the top of it… no-where near as much.

Peachy

Their value secures the blockchain against attack/subversion.

bjw678

I think the concept of blockchain is fantastic, and makes entire sense.

For what use case?
Crypto coins provide a cash like ability to conduct transactions without a central authority directly involved.
What else requires permanent records but no central authority to maintain them?(ignoring how you incentivise people to provide the required resources to secure the blockchain without payment)

Peachy

Just piping up to point out that with cash (ie actual notes and coins) – no records are required (let alone permanent records).

posession is ownership.

it’s just that this model can’t really be digitised, not without records of some kind.

different crypto takes different approaches to the kind of record used – Bitcoin is very transparent, to the point of being able to see people’s transactions and account balances. Monero obscures that – revealing jsut enough data to enable payment.

Peachy

Stew, I’ve not researched monero privacy beyond a very superficial / general curiosity level (as I don’t have a personal need for it) but my understanding was that from the public view of the blockchain, one can’t even tell the amount of the transaction nor which address it came from or went to.

also, apparently, because of the above, just sending a coin from one wallet address to another address in the same Waller dramatically increases privacy/complicated tracing.

if this is true and you had $20k of coke proceeds to deal with, you could just send it to yourself in a bunch of $200 transactions which would be diffuse as hell to try to track

Last edited 2 months ago by Peachy
bjw678

Until CBDC arrive and can be carried ontop of the chains, I don’t see the crypto space as much more than a beta testing lab.

Bujt at that point why bother using the alternate chain? Why not just use the CBDC chain?
Like the existing stablecoins which purport to place fiat on top of a chain all you are doing is adding additional third party risk for minimal to no benefit.

bjw678

That sounds like a perfectly valid argument in support of tether, it saves the US treasury from…

But the reality is if the CB doesn’t build a chain then a CBDC doesn’t exist, and what prevents this chain from printing unlimited CB liabilities?

bjw678

Although you still seem to be missing the disconnect between “distributed” ledger and “central” bank…

It’s also a non event. Presumably any future australian cbdc would tie into the existing private bank digital currency network to the point of being a meaningless and virtually non observable change.
As it would be in almost all other parts of the world as well.

Edit: although 007 may finally shut up about his central bank accounts for the citizens…

Last edited 2 months ago by bjw678
Coming

I also like the old tweet

“imagine if leaving your car idling 24/7 solved sudokus which you could exchange for drugs”

Although that leaves out the elaborate ponzi component from its description

Last edited 2 months ago by Coming
Miguel de Sousa

Imagine the drugs helped you code a soduku bot and you’ll start to get it 🤦‍♂️

Peachy

Perpetuum mobile!

Chinese Astroturfer

Drunk, wandering the streets in the early hours of the morning. Can only be up to no good.

I’m glad the cops arrested this fruit cake we don’t need another Eurydice Dixon tragedy.

Thank you to the boys in blue.

https://twitter.com/migtronix/status/1388246362764939264

Winning@Failing

Whinge whinge fuckin whinge.

If you hate the guy so much do something about it. Not like he’s hiding…..

Edit – PS one of those pigs was a woman ya dumb cunt

Last edited 2 months ago by Winning@Failing
Chinese Astroturfer

I don’t hate him I’m just trying to help him correct his behaviour. He’s a Martin Bryant in the making.

Plug Meister

Yeah Na, you forget that Victoria is the Nanny State and I’m pretty sure that bringing up the Eurydice Dixon situation in this context makes you a bit of a cnut like you would expect as a Ch1na Astr0turf3r…

Chinese Astroturfer

He’s posted footage of himself finding random women in parks and the streets and getting abusive with them.

It wouldn’t take much for this guy to flip and take things a little further.

There’s a lot of anger and hostility towards women.

Miguel de Sousa

This guy? It would take some cause I can use my brain unlike some.

You dumb motherfucker

Plug Meister

Really? Not what you posted in the Twotter link,so whatever… All I heard was cops in their natural Nanny State environment twirping ‘stop resisting’ etc etc

Miguel de Sousa

Yeah. And I caught it. And I’ll get footage from the cell. And I’ll bury them

Miguel de Sousa

I have YEARS of complaints with these motherfuckers. This time I caught it all on film

Miguel de Sousa

Dem stank hos can stay you dopes

Miguel de Sousa

Not the uppity snitches

Miguel de Sousa

Sweeper. The goal is steeper

stagmal

lmao this site has become fight club all of a sudden

Winning@Failing

See, the internet can still entertain you

Peachy

Hooray. Maybe we can have a bit of a fixture – Flamin’ Mondays?

Miguel de Sousa

You need Don’all Trump to kick around

Gouda

The Monday Wankoff. Whoever wins, also loses!

DjenkA

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Johannesburg+North,+Randburg,+2188,+South+Africa/

At approx 20km as crow flies from Johannesburg, lies Johannesburg North.
Apparently a person wearing a little ‘bald patch’ hat made a killing by selling prime real estate in what was effectively agricultural land at that time.
Street names were the same as Jo’burg cbd and even numbers were set to be as an extension of streets from cbd.

I loved the intro twatter, immediately reminded me of above.

Like every fiat, once the trust in ‘will pay bearer some amount of X’, it will go the same route every other unsupported currency went.
These will all settle to their intricate value: negative value.
That does not mean it will be the end of crypto currency, just that it will be the endless musical chairs.
All subject to non-intervention by tax collector’s, which may just give life support to one or some.

Now, do I qualify for a (mis)fortune teller?

Peachy

Like every fiat, once the trust in ‘will pay bearer some amount of X’, it will go the same route every other unsupported currency went.

no no – it is not fiat. There is no decree that deems it to be worth anything.

just social/community convention.

feels more like a commodity currency. But maths/code supply limited.

Last edited 2 months ago by Peachy
DjenkA

Though I meant to say it is fiat, I guess I have a plausible deniability it was meant to be a juxtaposition rather than equation.
If fiat is not what defines crypto, then how does ‘supported by math calculation’ sound?

Promise to pay bearer $1000000000* or the equivalent of 30 minutes of processing times from 20000 video card’s gpu”?

*=ZIM or USD, whichever available at the time

Peachy

No, the math/code bit is what guarantees that

  • no more than 21m bitcoins can be printed
  • bitcoins can’t be counterfeited

now, whether someone wants to swap Bitcoin (or fragments of Bitcoin) for a pizza or a car or $ZIM – that’s up to them.

DjenkA

Not sure of the significance of the 21mil.
Many limited run items of perceived value are indeed limited. Even chinks can decide to make 21mil of Beetle vdub but what’s to stop them from making 59000000 of porsche 356 (or whatever James Dean type) or 79453 Citroen DS, or anything with a limited run.
At least these would have some intricate value.

with right motivation, 21000000 can be stretched to 21000001. Nothing human made cannot be crackable, there is no guarantee that 10 or even 5yrs from now computers will not be able to crack the security of today. No security is safe from future apart from human mind forgetfulness.
What happens when speculators see potential in other clones of existing crypto? What happens if someone starts a new btc-like chain (if this can be done), let’s call it Bytecoin. Identical to Bit- but now Byte-.

https://www.indiatoday.in/auto/motor-shows/story/the-chinese-beetle-get-a-move-on-punk-cat-1793003-2021-04-20

bjw678

theoretical infinite amount of calculations means very little when in order to ‘unlock’ an account, those infinite combinations have to be entered one at a time against another server.

That may be true but in the real world is irrelevant. What REALLY matters is that it breaks public key cryptography, which as the name implies has a key that is public. There is no need to connect to a server to verify the private key you have matches the public one.

So what does that mean? Your https, ssh and similar that you use to connect to the server to securely pass the password are no longer secure, so they don’t need to crack your password, they can simply read it off the network and use it to access your accounts.

Bitcoin (and presumably all the other cryptos) is just as broken given a bitcoin address is literally a public key that the owner has the private key for.

bjw678

I’m not an expert on QC but in terms of Public key cryptography it is easy to verify that you have a valid private key for a public key as you can encrypt whatever you want and decrypt with your selected private key attempt and the pair is solved. Although I think you don’t even need to do that as the 2 are mathematically related, it’s just not easy/possible to go from just the public key and generate the private key.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography

For general secret key symmetric encryption the brute force attack is literally as you described, decode and see if it’s gibberish or not based on an understanding of the underlying data.
Quantum computing allows this to be done massively in parallel rather than sequentially(I think).

bjw678

Practical QC breaks virtually all(1) current crypto from my undertanding so will be serious problems for anything requiring security.

(1) It doesn’t break at the minimum a One-time_pad although that is a far from practical solution given the requirements.

The resulting ciphertext will be impossible to decrypt or break if the following four conditions are met:[1][2]

The key must be truly random.

The key must be at least as long as the plaintext.

The key must never be reused in whole or in part.

The key must be kept completely secret.

bjw678

Practical QC breaks virtually all(1) current crypto from my undertanding so will be serious problems for anything requiring security.
(1) It doesn’t break at the minimum a One-time_pad although that is a far from practical solution given the requirements.

Lol, my first reply got spambotted.

Peachy

It’s either the links… or the spooks who don’t want EZFKA units to know about encryption and non-encryption.

bjw678

I figured as much, hence the post without the cutpaste from wiki.
I guess MB has conditioned me too well…

Miguel de Sousa

BTW cunt! My sister, the dyke, I’m quite sure has dinner with her wife and daughter just as you described

I wouldn’t know. I don’t talk to them

DjenkA

Have brake mate, have a kit-kat

Miguel de Sousa

But you’re not wrong. That bitch ain’t never could stand straight

I know now I’m related to nobody

Coming
Coming

https://mobile.twitter.com/bitfinex/status/1390241119687032840

this is so retarded that I can’t even imagine the mechanics or the intention of this

usd/USDT 10x leverage

so I’m assuming you put down $10 of real fiat and you get 100 USDT funbux in return , which you can punt on whichever magic bean tickles your fancy

and so long as 1 USD = 1 USDT , you won’t get liquidated

have I got it correct ?

could one of the new paradigm! financial geniuses on this website help me understand – this ponzi is now so elaborate I can’t follow it anymore

Coming

Why can I not give them 10USDT for $US100 in filthy fiat instead ?

no willing counter party ?
How come ?